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Digital Transformation in Government: Lessons from Ukraine

Part 1 of my interview with Kostiantyn Koshelenko

David Rogers

and

Kostiantyn Koshelenko

May 08, 2024

Transcript

I’m delighted to share this video of my recent interview with Kostiantyn Koshelenko – Ukrainian Deputy Minister of Social Policy for Digital Transformation, and author of "Management in Times of War."

(Click video above ☝️ to start watching)

We held a wide-ranging live conversation with subscribers to David Rogers on Digital.

I will be sharing our conversation this week and next, in two separate videos.

Today’s edition, “Part 1”, covers:

Transforming the Ministry of Social Services to put citizens at the center
Integrating data, legacy systems, and documents in the cloud
Caring for human capital with 5 million displaced persons
Automated decision making and electronic case management
Working with diverse partners and keeping stakeholders engaged
The importance of passion, patience, and pragmatism

Enjoy!

(Video above ☝️. Transcript below 👇)

Follow Kostia on LinkedIn to find out more about his work: here.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] David Rogers: Welcome to a special video edition of David Rogers on Digital. I'm delighted to be speaking today with Kostiantyn Koshelenko, deputy minister of social policy for Ukraine, where he is responsible for digital transformation and digitization. Kostia is also the author of the new book, "Management in Times of War," for which I was honored to offer my endorsement on the back cover.

[00:00:31] In this conversation, we'll dig into Kostia's incredible experience, and the topics of this book, and in particular two vital topics. First, a case study or a look at digital transformation in government. Examining how digital can be used to reinvent government services and serve the many stakeholders that have to be aligned for success.

[00:00:53] Second, we'll have a chance to dig into leadership under tremendous uncertainty. While his is a story of managing teams in wartime, he also shares lessons on how to meet the challenges facing every leader in the digital age. Kostia, thank you for joining us on David Rogers on Digital. Let's introduce you to our readers.

[00:01:15] So, let me give you the chance to do it in your own words: Who are you and what do you do?

[00:01:22] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: Hi, David. It's good to see you and hey to everyone. So, I am Kostiantyn Koshelenko or Kostia, and I'm Deputy Minister of Social Policy of Ukraine for Digital Transformation. And my area of focus is to work on integrating and developing the unified informational system of the social sphere and some subsystem.

[00:01:48] When we talk about my main goal, I think that first of all, it's to help people from vulnerable group to back in normal active life. It's not only my goal. It's a goal of our Ministry of Social Policy. And it's making sure that our digital tools are not just about technology or innovation, but they really touch people's lives.

[00:02:13] And I'm also an author, I'm newly an author and I wrote a book on "Management in Times of War." I'm also a slow marathon runner, a former retail banker, and a husband and father of two children who live with me in Kyiv today. And so that's a little bit about me and looking forward for our discussion and, really dive into how we can drive change together.

[00:02:43] David Rogers: Wonderful. Thank you Kostia for sharing a bit about yourself and your, diverse background. I know you've, as you mentioned, had a background—before coming to work in government— in banking and financial services. Being involved in digital transformation there as well. And you've really been doing some amazing work since you've been able to step into this role.

[00:03:03] And I think it was 2021 that you were appointed the deputy minister, right?

[00:03:09] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: Yeah.

[00:03:10] David Rogers: Terrific. Thanks again for joining us. Your book shares lessons on a number of really important topics as we'll see: management, leading agile teams, allocating resources, managing risk.

[00:03:22] There's a lot here that we can all learn from. So, I'd like to dig into it by taking three different pieces of the book, or three different themes and giving you a chance to share some of your experience. So the first is about this journey of digital transformation in government.

[00:03:38] So if you could share a bit with us about, what were you doing in the Ministry of Social Services? Originally, what's the role of that ministry in the society? And how is this changing with your efforts that you've been spearheading at digital transformation? I know you've got some slides on this topic.

[00:03:55] So if you want to go ahead and pull those up, I'll let you share a little bit on, on that experience and then chime in with a few questions of my own.

[00:04:03] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: Yeah, I will share it. And this first slide. I think that first and foremost, when we talk about the digital transformation in the social sector in Ukraine, we're really talking about very practical things.

[00:04:17] It's not just some kind of digitalization for the sake of digitalization. As the Ministry of Social Policy, our task is to help people who find themselves in difficult life circumstances—through social benefits or services to return to normal economic lives. In times of war, too. And it's precisely digital tools that helps us accomplish this task.

[00:04:44] Which is why we are developing the unified informational system of this really big social sphere. And this system comes to replace outdated ones that had been operated since nineties and which were district oriented, couldn't operate in the cloud. And, lack of sufficient interoperability with other registers.

[00:05:07] I think that the strategy of the digital transformation of the social sphere, we have formulated in 2020. But it was at the beginning of 2022, when I joined the ministry, that the system began to be implemented in practice. For the first time in Ukrainian history, a unified social register appeared. Before that, all information about recipients and social support was scattered across various systems and registers.

[00:05:37] And I think that I can show you one example. Our priority is quality of social support, high operational efficiency of the system for the state, and client-oriented approach around the citizen. So let me use this slide to show just one example of how things used to work. And on the next slide, I'll talk about what we changed.

[00:06:04] Look at this slide, please. And when we see that citizen could only apply in person and only within the direct of their registration. And the processes were paper-based. Decisions were made subjectively. And, of course, there are long waits, long lines. And this certainly made citizen.

[00:06:28] dissatisfied and made the social support system unfair and inefficient. This is only one example. And when we talk about our new customers, it's very understandable for any Ukrainians. Just look. Citizens can apply using their mobile phone or in person anywhere across Ukraine. Through the state one-stop-shop application, Diia, or you can visit in person citizen service center or social support center,

[00:07:04] if you prefer. And even there, they can use their electronic documents in offline offices too. And of course, as a result, people can receive both social payments and services

[00:07:18] through this customer pathway. Before the war, simplifying of this process was about convenience and customer orientation.

[00:07:28] But now, during the war, it's also about safety of our citizens and caring for our human capital. This process allows people to contact with the state, even from the bomb shelter. And during air raids, you can do it from your smartphone. And the state approach allows it to respond efficiently and quickly to people needs during times of mass displacement within our country.

[00:07:55] I think that it's a good example. But when we talk about, really, a big system, it's about this ecosystem. This system is already operational, and thanks to it, we have been able to register almost 5 million internally displaced persons and ensure they receive payments. We also implemented online adoption processes, starting from the online consultation and candidate registration stage. Along with the most demanded social services,

[00:08:30] we are continuing to develop this ecosystem and this kind of puzzle or mosaic. It's about our plans in this year. We implemented electronic case management, which will ensure customer-oriented delivery of social services and efficient administration of social services. We plan to engage functionality even the people with disabilities.

[00:08:56] and new services to the portal and the Diia application and implement in the electronic citizen office. Regarding social payments, we will work towards automated decision making to increase efficiency and independence from subjective human decision and to compensate for the shortage of workers in our offices.

[00:09:19] And, we are developing an exchange and plan to integrate then these 30 state registers and the system so that the system can automatically populate information, not relying on verbal citizen reports or paper documents. It's about automatic decision making, and it's about interoperability of all systems in Ukraine.

[00:09:49] David Rogers: Wow that's really amazing. And thank you for sharing that. To see the range from, as you said services for adopting children to receiving, social support payments to your case management system. This is clearly touching on a lot of different kinds of social services, different parts of government who have to be brought together,

[00:10:08] and, I'm particularly interested as I just see, leaders driving digital change and solutions in different contexts have very different constraints. And, clearly one that you just touched on there that maybe wasn't obvious to me when we first started speaking was, a shortage of workers.

[00:10:23] And obviously that's one of the things that happens, that may be partly simply a matter of demographics. But certainly in times of war, you've got shortages of people for all kinds of roles and that becomes a major kind of focus as you're thinking about digital transformation of government services.

[00:10:42] I also see, in terms of the services you're talking about, a lot of different stakeholders. You've got case management, so you've got what would be traditionally case workers, you've got the people receiving support, you've got your own team and so forth, and presumably other parts of government.

[00:10:56] What do you see, broadly speaking, looking at digital transformation in government, in the public sector, what are the challenges around connecting all these different parties, these different stakeholders?

[00:11:09] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: Thank you. Thank you. It's really a great question. But if you talk about challenges in normal life, it's one situation.

[00:11:17] When we talk about challenges, in this time, it's another situation. But I always try to talk very simple. And I think the digital transformation in public sector is akin to renovation of an old estate while living in it. Addressing the challenge of the outdated system, tight budgets, and the complexities of operations during the war.

[00:11:47] This old legacy system is deeply embedded in daily operations. Costly and complex to update. Requiring not just financial investment, but also a strategic approach to integration. Moreover, budget constraints constantly challenge the allocation of funds for new technologies. And this financial juggling is critical in ensuring that the digital overhaul

[00:12:13] doesn't just start, but also continues smoothly. And the scenario is further complicated by the ongoing war and which necessitates a robust and adoptable system to maintain services under any circumstance. It's about keeping the government operational, come what may, and engage all stakeholders from government body, like parliament and the office of president, the local communities.

[00:12:41] International supporters. It's really crucial. And this is about wide-ranging collaboration. It ensures the initiative in comprehensive and inclusive alliance, all parties towards a common goal and smoothing our potential bumps in the transformational journey.

[00:13:01] David Rogers: Yeah. And aligning everyone, all these different parties towards a common goal, of course, really requires a really strong, clear, simple statement of the vision of the impact that you're trying to have.

[00:13:14] I know that's been critical in your work as you've been leading so many folks in the government. I'm struck by your comment. I think everyone I speak to is thinking about how do we build systems that are, that are secure, cyber security of just mundane day to day, data.

[00:13:32] Protection and so forth. But really, having robust and resilient systems is, particularly critical for you. Anything you could share of what you've done or ways, technically speaking, or otherwise, to try to make sure that your systems are as, everything you're building, the portals and so forth is as reliable as possible, meaning, power outages or one city or location is struck by bombs, how do you think about making sure that you are still up to be able to serve those citizens who can still reach you?

[00:14:05] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: I think that this circumstantiation, it's our new reality. And when we talk about some advice to another people, I think that war, it's some kind of example of very hard situation, of very big crisis, and very big conflict. And I think that in this situation of shortage of people and shortage of resources, when you dive into digital transformation in public sector, one of the first steps is truly engage and captivate all your stakeholders with a vision of change.

[00:14:45] And it's about making them, fall in love with the idea of transformation. This means clearly articulated the benefits, really benefits. Not just in terms of efficiency or cost saving, but how it directly improves service delivery for the public and makes the daily tasks easier.

[00:15:07] And it's also crucial to accept the digital transformation project often phased away the challenges that aren't found in a small scale project. Always have contingency plans, what I like to call Plan B. And this might involve phased rollouts of technology to mitigate this risk and have flexible timelines to accommodate unforseen issues.

[00:15:34] And I think that most importantly, be prepared to iterate. The journey of digital transformation is rarely linear, and it involves learning from each phase and adapting step by step. And this flexibility can help in managing the expectation of all the stakeholders and maintaining momentum, even when things don't go as planned.

[00:16:02] And in essence successful digital transformation in public sector, even in times of war, requires a blend of passion, patience, and pragmatism. Keep stakeholders engaged, plan for delays, and ready to adapt as you learn what works best in your specific context. Of course. Of course, besides this, the biggest challenge now is working under the condition of war.

[00:16:28] People are dying every day. And we have supplies to protect against Russia. But we continue our work because we know it's indeed, it's needed by Ukrainian society. And that motivates my team to work together.

[00:16:47] David Rogers: It's such important work. And I really recognize and commend the dedication that you and your team and all your partners have brought to, continuing this work.

[00:16:57] And as you said, digital transformation is rarely linear, even in the best of times. And I think, the lesson of your experience and the value of flexibility and agility. And as you said, those, thank you, your watchwords: passion, patience and pragmatism is something that I think all of us can learn from, whatever circumstances we're leading in.

[00:17:20] Let me switch to another topic from the book, which is really important and really relevant to a wide range of leaders, which is about partnering with others, sharing with others and learning from others, looking beyond your own team, your own organization and how do you really connect with that ecosystem of external partners.

[00:17:39] I know that's been critical. You talk about it in the book, and as we've talked about, that's really critical to the whole approach you've taken and why you've been able to succeed under such difficult circumstances…

I know you had some slides to this point as well, if you want to pull them up and share a bit about your experience, with that network of partners.

[00:18:00] Kostiantyn Koshelenko: This slide, it's not about our result, but I think that about the result of our partners, because we make it together. And I think in my view, we are still on the path and have much to do. But thanks to our interactive approach, our results have already been recognized by the European community in terms of mass registration of internally displaced persons and providing them social support through a smartphone application.

[00:18:32] And additionally, Zero Project has awarded our remote services created for people with disabilies. We have really unique experience in the digitalization of human aid accounting. And Denise Brown, the United Nations representative in Ukraine, stated our system represents their first successful experience using of national system for cash payments from United Nations to the population of the country in times of war.

[00:19:05] And therefore, we invite you to Kyiv, but we're also ready to share our experience online. And we want the technologies developed and tested in Ukraine during the war to be useful in other countries. Both in humanitarian disaster but in normal life too, to increase accessibility and engage efficiency of the state.

[00:19:32] And when we talk about my personal input, my personal way to say thank you for our partners and this is about my book. And now you see on the screen a book in which I have tried to share our experience. It's about managing projects that adapt to working in war conditions and building resilience within teams, engaging partners, and scaling our system with their support.

[00:20:01] It also covers the work of managers under complex circumstances and challenges. You can directly scan this QR code and visit a mini site of the book for more details. And to ensure a comprehensive exploration of the topic, I involve 40 expert contributors from Ukraine and 12 other countries, who also shared their experience of working under a force majeure condition.

[00:20:30] I think that I need to say thank you for all these guys and girls, because the book, it's not only my result, it's the result of our team, it's the result of their voice. And this book is really designed for social media era. And each contributor of this book can be directly accessed through a QR code that links to their social media profiles, LinkedIn or Facebook.

[00:21:00] These contributors are really fascinating individuals. And by following them, you can greatly expand your perspective. For example Igor Smelyansky is, it's a CEO of Ukrposhta, a national post operator of Ukraine. For example, Alla Vanetsyants, is a CEO of Bank Pivdennyi from Odessa. This is people with very different stories, but all of them try to work with their team, with their goals.

[00:21:29] And I think that it's very interesting how voices of managers from different countries sounds together. And this is about contributors. And when you talk about different spheres of their work. I think that the best ideas often emerge at the interaction of different industries, which is why I invited top managers from diverse fields to contribute.

[00:21:58] Among them are bankers and logists, arms and booksellers. public officials and entrepreneurs and their work in Ukraine and support Ukraine from abroad. And this cross industry collaboration enrich the discourse and brings a multiple of perspectives, I think, fostering innovative and comprehensive approaches to the challenges.

[00:22:23] And opportunities discussed in this book. But when we talk about some practical approaches, I think, it seems that there are no topics that hasn't been explored in books. Yet we have tried to structure, including visually, the key points that managers should focus on when working in wartime conditions.

[00:22:47] It's crucial not just to know, but to remember and apply these skills. And that makes you efficient, that makes you effective. Think of this book as your personal Swiss Army knife, where you'll remember more function and reading it. And this approach not only enhances your knowledge, but gives you these practical tools to navigate and manage efficiently under challenging conditions.

[00:23:19] I think that, it's not something very unique. Because agile values, it's traditional agile values, but approach remain essential even in times of war. However, when missiles fly over your office, organizing a team becomes much more challenging and unpredictable, and project significantly increases.

[00:23:46] And furthermore, the cost of mistake also rise dramatically under this condition. Managing in such extreme situation requires not only a robust contingency plan, but also a calm and strategic response to rapidly changing scenario. That's why, for us, it's really our normal framework in these times.

[00:24:09] David Rogers: And I think that's to me, one of the really interesting lessons of the book is how you have applied, as you said, some of these longstanding principles that have, arisen, certainly it's the agile manifesto coming out of software development communities. Really applying them to your particular circumstances.